The Podcast Battle in the Middle East

Podcasts are two decades old at this point - a regular part of the morning routine or work commute for millions. The media distress over podcasts is old and largely gone (an echo of the panic over blogs before that). However, the controversy over podcasts has awoken again. In the 2024 election, the Trump campaign strategically used podcasts to reach new voters. The formats were opposite of the sanitized, predictable studio sets and instead driven by the personality and brand of the host and their millions of loyal listeners. Most importantly, the podcasts were ‘longform’ meaning two to three hour conversations which usually broke into niche audiences and their niche obsessions. Donald Trump, J.D. Vance, Tulsi Gabbard, and Robert Kenndy jr, all appeared on the Joe Rogan podcast. Donald Trump also went on Theo Von, Barstool Sports, Andrew Schulz, Lex Fridman; Patrick Bet-David, Logan Paul, Shawn Ryan, and Dan Bongino among others. After Trump’s win, podcasts continued to influence- Trump shook up White House press relations to include podcasters and shun “unfriendly” mainstream networks. Bongino became deputy head of the FBI. Tulsi Gabbard shuttered her own podcast to become Director of National Intelligence. Global leaders also took the cue - Narendra Modi went on the Lex Fridman podcast; Sergei Lavrov spoke with Tucker Carlson, and also Andrew Napolitano. The Middle East is only recently catching up to the podcast revolution. The younger generation is listening and they find podcasters more trustworthy than traditional media.

The Framing Contest

There are two clear streams for regional podcasts - one is centred on more political and social advertising and the other is strategic communication. One is diagnostic and one is prognostic. Looking broadly, Saudi Arabia and the UAE, while having high listenership and outstanding production (educational, spiritual, academic and self help topics) they lack a clear identity and have a very broad brand. The subject matter is all over the place, but you wouldn’t go to them for political content. Rather, they focus more on history. The closest they come to politics is a diagnostic approach to very specific problems. Podcasts from Saudi Arabia are really more informative and not controversial in any political way. Podcasts from the UAE do diagnose political problems and threats, but in a pessimistic way. Qatar is very political addressing urgent issues with some themes and messages crossing through several podcasts - maybe not coordination but certainly seizing on the same trend. Their solution is unified - go back to our roots, move away from US dominance, Iran is not a threat, and strengthen the Umma. They also criticize regional states without mentioning them by name. But they use specific enough details to know exactly who they criticize. By interviewing experts who discuss their own experiences, which of course contribute to the unified solution and provide authenticity , the podcasts come off as very credible. They are conversational, do not sound like ‘talking points’ and are clearly going after the ‘hearts and minds’. The nanotargeting of podcasts with the overarching messaging that neoliberalism has failed and US hegemony is waning is a new tool at undermining the modern states in the Levant.

Podcasts and Players

Podcasts have existed in our region for years but were usually found lacking (except for Lebanon). In some ways they still lack a clear message or brand. Finjan, a Saudi podcast, is one of the best ones out there. Their topics range from the AI revolution to pre Islamic history. It is engaging and fun but at the end it lacks a clear identity or a project other than entertainment. The UAE has ArabCast with clear messaging and a frame, but one lacking. Podcasts from the UAE have adopted clear diagnostic frames, more an anti message without providing a clear path forward. The interviews revolve around identifying an enemy, exposing the complex realities behind certain regional and international political cases and events but without a solution or way forward. Then the last two players are Turkey and Qatar. Both have different streams feeding into one larger vision - a transboundary regional vision with Islam as an umbrella. I truly find their narratives fascinating though alarming . I identified some main players such as the Atheer podcast and Wadah Khanfar’s resurrected podcast Mawazeen - both funded and close to the Qatari government - and the Ehata podcast. Turkey linked podcasts are Tareeq and Salah Chatah’s podcast. Looking closely at Waddah Khanfar, the former Director General of Al Jazeera Media (who took it from a single, controversial channel and turned it into a massive global network) and his podcast Mawazeen Geopolitics. While not one of the top podcasts, it is influential. While still driving Al Jazeera behind the scenes, he introduces narratives in his podcast which get picked up elsewhere. He may not have the largest audience but he sets the agenda. He began his podcast in February 2022, experimented with the format, stopped only a few months in September 2022 until March 2025. In the last two weeks he posted four episodes. Recent episode titles include “The Future of the Umma” “Umma, a Central Strategic Concept” “Holy Geography” “The Soul of the Umma”. He only has 29.8k subscribers on YouTube but is getting almost 200k views. Why does his podcast matter? His framing. According to him, we are at a moment of extreme anger and despair. The war on Gaza has left our youth disenchanted with their respective countries as well as the international community. While MENA states were trying to tamper messaging over armed resistance, Syria's own armed rebels toppled Assad and renewed faith in Islamic armed resistance. Our youth do not know what they need to believe in. Violence is not exclusive to one group or state but all around us. And so on. His latest video explored the soul of the Umma and how to find it. He went way back to the fall of Baghdad at the hands of the Mongols and the process of “transplanting” Abbasid leaders to be used by other powers as empty shirts - they did nothing and had no control. Then he put forward the true champions of the Umma - Islamic theologians and thinkers Ibin Tiamiah, Ibin Khaldoun and others. He argues for reinstating power to theologians with state adherence to their teachings. This is only one podcast, but his message is the same throughout all his new episodes, Umma supersedes nations. Our regimes are corrupt thus we will not thrive. Let’s go back to our roots and reject “modernity”. Ironically, listening to him is like listening to Alexander Dugin or Steve Bannon. He is truly our own “champion of conservative values” by promoting traditional thinkers. This time the kids are listening and learning. Another podcast that feeds into Khanfar's narrative is Atheer podcast, only launched a year ago, but is already competing in subscribers and viewership with the biggest podcasts in the region. Atheer seems to capitalize on a trend that Mr. Khanfar outlines on his channel - the shift in balance of power, the future of great powers, and where we all fit in (meaning the Levant and Gulf). All of this is discussed in a very friendly and authentic matter with different experts from across the region with an emphasis on the war on Gaza (delegitimizing international community and regional powers while propping up Iran and co) and the recent events in Syria (Islamic revolution finally toppling down a tyrant and the revived hope in armed resistance that leads to success). The messaging is clear and the framing is always offering hope and plans to move forward. The audience is the new generation and the audience is being won over by authentic, trustworthy narratives which unite them around shared losses and desired victories.

Where is Jordan?

I previously misjudged podcasts and didn’t look close enough. I always looked at message framing in terms of security and radicalization. Podcasts are soft power. They are even ‘softer’ and more targeted than traditional media. They are influential in a way that other media is not. They are not like the quick message of news briefs or advertisements or political slogans. When people invest two hours in a conversation, they are engaged.

But podcasts are like other media in that they shape the way listeners view an issue - they provide a frame for an issue. Simply put, there are a lot of competing narratives about everything. So, if you don’t advance a narrative, someone will do it for you. Which is why I talked above about which countries foster these frames. But now I want to look at where they are absent. Jordan is a notable absence. Jordan does not have a think-tank culture, Jordan does not have a market for public intellectuals. Even our art scene (literature, poetry, drama) is largely by Jordanians living outside the country. But if we don’t have public intellectuals and podcasters helping form our identity and culture, then it will be shaped for us by outsiders. Two examples. Last week Atheer interviewed Fatma Smadi, a Jordanian expert on Iran, who painted Jordan as an autocratic state engaging in torture and arrests of those who protest against Israel. She also suggested that Jordanian officials are groomed by foreign countries through exchange programs to be subservient. Look, she is framing Jordan and Jordan has no domestic counter message. The other example is Jordanian diaspora critic Ala al Faza who posts daily video streams criticizing Jordan’s state and actions. Where is the domestic alternative? I don’t mean a government spokesperson. I mean people who discuss the actual issues and put forward alternatives to the two mentioned above.

Second, I have written about the threat to the modern state. I explored security threats and malign actors, mostly focusing on non-state actors. But I also explored the need for a vision and roadmap to move forward. Both my pieces focused on preserving the modern states of the Middle East. I correctly identified the shift in mood among the population, especially our youth, and understood that there will be a war of narrative coming. I expected different mediums but now it is clear that podcasts, especially on Youtube, which skyrocketed in popularity in the MENA region recently, are the battleground.

Finally, Jordan is absent from the conversation at a critical time. There are a few podcasts in Jordan, like the Wesam Ali podcast and Podqasti. Arguably, none of them focus on the moment of crisis around the Kingdom. They carefully avoid politics. A few of them are funded by foreign donors as a program, not an organic Jordanian media. But the audience is there. Jordan should grab their attention. Otherwise they will tune into other voices that denigrate Jordan or use it as a tool for their own agenda. Let youth speak! Fostering a culture of innovative discussions online will help build identity and engagement. By fostering podcasts we may foster more public intellectuals. To be clear, I don’t mean influencers. Influencers are almost irrelevant. They can’t handle a three hour conversation. Instead they film themselves eating Krispy Kreme donuts or wearing brand fashion or promoting Abdoun restaurants. They may have high subscribers but can’t provoke thought or action among the public. We saw this in the 2024 elections when some influencers were part of a campaign to get Jordanians to vote. I mean that journalists, academics, youth leaders, and engaged citizens all have a greater, more authentic, and valuable role in discussing our situation and crises than the angry Diaspora or political voices from Qatar. This is not a moment for hanging on the sidelines, or waiting for our turn to speak, this is a moment where our identity, the future of our nation will only be realized through loud, clear and most importantly authentic conversations.